Answers In Nature

3 major problems

Charming Story

So, why?

The people were sinning so badly that it justified drowning everyone, including blameless unborn children and animals?

They must have been pretty bad - worse than Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot

What was the point? Did it fix anything at all? Apparently everyone just went right back to sinning. What was the point?

Which He must have known was going to happen, seeing as how He is apparently omniscient.

The flood was for naught, yet God carried out his horrific genocide anyway. This is the most disturbing and perhaps the most ridiculous premise ever conjured by the human mind.

"sweet savor" of the smoke "soothed" the LORD and caused Him to forget His wrath that led Him to do the whole Flood thing.!

The Logistics

We know from medieval and modern shipbuilding

How much timber you'd need

Timber was measured by the "load." Each load being equal to 50 cubic feet. The average oak tree yielded approximately one load, which usually ran to about one ton in weight.

The number of loads which were used to build a line-of-battle warship ("74") in the 18th century was in the neighborhood of 3,700 loads. No fewer than 1,890 loads of the above amount were "compass" timber, and 150 more loads were needed for "knee" construction. Planking which exceeded 4 inches was known as "thick stuff" and 410 loads of this went into the hull. In addition 360 loads of 3 and 4 inch planking were also used.

Shipwrights in England were convinced that slow growing oak (Quercus robur) was the finest shipbuilding material in the world. They narrowed this preference down to the oaks grown in four counties of England -- Surrey, Kent , Hampshire, and Sussex -- and the best of these came from the forests of Sussex. Northern oaks and the white oak (Quercus alba), of North America was held in low esteem. Actually the live oak (Quercus virginiana) which grows or grew in a narrow band some twenty miles wide from Virginia to the Mississippi River was equal or superior to English Oak. It was such timber from which the heavy frigate "U.S.S. Constitution" got her nickname of "Old Ironsides."

The Mary Rose was an early 16th century English carrack or "great ship". Built in Portsmouth in 1510–1512, she was one of the earliest purpose-built men-of-war in the English navy. She was over 500 tons burthen, had a keel of over 32 m (106 ft). {Noah's Ark was supposedly 5 times the size of the Mary Rose.}

Although the pride of the English fleet, she accidentally sank during the battle of the Solent, 19 July 1545. Constructing a warship of the size of the Mary Rose was a major undertaking, requiring vast quantities of high-quality material.

In the case of building a state-of-the-art warship, these materials were primarily oak. The total amount of timber needed for the construction can only be roughly calculated since only about one third of the ship still exists. One estimate for the number of trees is around 600 mostly large oaks, representing about 16 hectares (40 acres) of woodland.

The huge trees that had been common in Europe and the British Isles in previous centuries were by the 16th century quite rare, which meant that timbers were brought in from all over southern England. The largest timbers used in the construction were of roughly the same size as those used in the roofs of the largest cathedrals in the high Middle Ages. An unworked hull plank would have weighed over 300 kg (660 lb), and one of the main deck beams would have weighed close to three-quarters of a tonne.

The Wyoming, the largest wooden boat ever constructed, was 330 feet long (vs Noah's Ark supposed 500 feet). It took 2,400 tons of longleaf yellow pine, 700 tons of white oak and 300 tons of iron and steel (fittings, fastenings, and strapping).

Scale that up and you can see that Noah's Ark would have required between 4000 and 5000 tons of timber.

How hard it would be for a Stone Age culture to transport that amount of timber

And how impossible it would be for unskilled farmers to build such a gigantic boat.

There is a huge amount of skill and experience involved in building a wooden boat:

In this period, normally naval architect's plans were not used. It was a Master Builder who determined the ship model, which was in actuality not a full sized hull model, but rather something called a half-model. This was a model of one-half of the vessel shown the long way from the side. Many modern restaurants and marine stores, etc. display these half-models in framed picture hangings.

This half-model was created incorporating the Master Builder's design features which were desired by the prospective owners of the vessel. The half-models ranged in size from three-eighths of an inch to the foot, up to one-half inch to the foot. The half-model was built up from the bottom using horizontal wood layers so that "lines" could be taken off for the determination of dimensions needed to construct the ship. The outside of the ships half-model did not represent the outside of the ship's planking as one would suppose, but rather the outside of the vessel's framing. The top edge of the ship's rail was represented by the top edge of the half-model. It is these special understandings similar to the above definitions that separate those who were familiar with shipbuilding from those who merely admired the half-model for it's grace and beauty.

An example of the ratio of size between the half-model and the constructed ship: The ship "Calcutta" (1252 tons, constructed in 1876, and built at the shipyard on Spencer's Island in Nova Scotia) measured 192.3 feet in length. The half-model for this vessel measured out at 72 inches from bow to stern. This ratio provides the figures of three-eighths of an inch to the foot.

Upon the completion of the half-model, the mould loft floor became the area for the full sized lines and dimensions to be laid down. It was here that the lines for the vessel's primary timbers and frames were to be found: frames, timbers, beams, stem, sternpost and other key members as well.

Laying down these lines accurately was an important responsibility and was usually undertaken by the Master Builder himself, or at least by skilled craftsmen under his close and immediate supervision. The instruments and tools for laying down these lines comprised both the square and the long straight edge, chalk line, compass and battens. Using these lines the patterns for the items were constructed from a light wood, which were the equal of today's template sheets.

The heaviest and strongest timber in the ship was the keel. It formed he basis of the vessel and was it's backbone. The keel was put together with massive timbers in order to provide the greatest possible strength. The keel was placed on large blocks which raised it off of the shipyard bed timbers, which allowed access to all parts of the keel timber as it was being worked.

Other shipwrights were engaged in building the frames, sternpost and stem while the keel construction was being completed. When this work was finished, it was time to devote attention to the "framing platform." This was a device which was set at right angles to the keel, and using it's dimensions shipwrights maneuvered each frame into it's precise location and then fastened it securely with a floor frame. In the period before powered sawmills these frames were beveled by hand in order for the frame to receive the curved planking. This work was done with a brad axe, and adze and the process was called "dubbing." There were several kinds of broadaxes and adzes, made up for specific tasks, like the offset handles of the tools for right and left handed cuts, and broadaxe faces ground flat on one side, beveled on the opposite in order to cut a straight line, or the use of a straight edge adz, or a curved edge adz to accomplish either flat or curved cuts. After the advent of powered saws these bevels were sawn into the frames, and a light "dubbing" might be required for a more precise fit. This was the saving of a good deal of physical labor, and allowed the time for the production of a ship to be shortened significantly. However, the down side of this use of power saws, reduced the number of men who could use these "dubbing tools" skillfully.

When the frames, sternpost and stem were in place, the vessel was said to be "in frame." Now came the strengthening timbers. The "keelson" was now laid over the keel and floor and securely fastened. This great heavy member, gave a longitudinal strength to the hull.

After the heavy framing was completed the effort now turned to the planking of the hull. This was the interior longitudinal planking that was fastened to the inner side of the frames to further strengthen the vessel and to protect the ship's framing from the anticipated cargo. When this interior planking was placed or "ceiled" to the height of the lower deck, then the shelf and clap timbers were installed. These members were horizontal timbers which would support the deck beams. Each deck beam would then be fitted with a heavy under-brace, called a "knee". These knees were often made following the natural curve of the wood for additional strength.

Vessels up to approximately 1200 tons usually had two decks, while the larger vessels would normally boast of three decks. In the case of the larger vessels it was a common practice to plank over the upper two decks while leaving the lower deck open.

The deck below the Main Deck was known as the "'tween decks", a contraction of the full name "between decks." On some vessels this deck was only about four feet below the Main Deck, and at best there was only headroom. Small schooners and craft of only six or eight feet depth inside the hull, usually only had one deck but the earlier vessels and vessels of four hundred tons register, were nearer fifteen feet in depth, permitting a height of a little over six feet between the Main Deck and the 'tween decks, with over eight feet of "hold" space for cargo, less of course, the thickness of the intermediate decking and supporting beams.

There is a definite art to the planking of a vessel. Normally this portion of the shipbuilding was undertaken by beginning at the keel and working upwards. The heavy planks needed to be pliable to some degree and so these planks were steamed in the steam box to prepare them for this activity. It was not a simple thing to bend and to twist these planks into a shape that matched the hull design, and required a great deal of experience and hard work, not to mention the use of virtually every available mechanical device to complete the task in a shipshape manner. One of the things that added to the difficulty of this precise fitting, was the fact that the butt-ends of the hull planks had to be placed in such a way as to be distributed evenly over the hull surface. A concentration of butt-end lines in any area of the hull would present a weak place in the whole hull structure.

When the last plank was in position, the caulkers with their caulking irons and long mallets began to force oakum into the seams between the planks for a watertight integrity over the whole hull. To do this they used a variety of tools (caulking irons) which resembled to some degree oversized shoehorns, and a heavy wooden mallet whose heads were somewhat more elongated and extended than an ordinary mallet -- very like a croquet mallet only more so. The Oakum was a thick fibrous material which was made by picking old manila cable. When the oakum was forced into the seams and was well packed therein the whole was "payed" over with hot tar or pitch.

There is an interesting side note to this activity which is used in the English language today -- "The Devil to Pay------." This saying is shortened from -- "The Devil to Pay and no tar hot." The Devil being a deck seam which required a great deal of care being a wide seam and one over the forecastle when the crew berthed. Obviously, it took a significant amount of time and effort to get the tar / pitch warm enough to "pay" the seams, and so the above statement is often used when one has a severe problem and the probable result is not enviable!!!!!

When the caulkers had completed their efforts the hull was then filled with water. The hull was then carefully inspected, any leaks noted and marked, and then sealed off. At this time in the building process, many hulls were also "salted' with rock salt which being poured between the frames of the vessel from frame heads to the waterline, acted as a preservative.

While the caulkers were working the hull, the deck work was not being neglected. The planks in the deck were carefully laid and in their turn caulked as well. The cabin and the forecastle were constructed with attention to the fact that these areas would be the living quarters for the ship's crew and officers, and then the hatch coamings were measured, built and installed.

While the caulkers and shipwrights were at work on the hull, in an area away from the ship, the rudder was being constructed. When the above work was completed it was now time for the rudder to be hung on the gudgeons which were fastened securely to the hull in the stern of the vessel. With the rudder hung and the steering lines rove, the shipsmiths bent their efforts to completing the ship's ironwork . Finally the windlass, also constructed separately in an area away from the hull was hoisted aboard and installed in it's place. All that remained now was for the hull to be painted according to the customer's design and color before the hull hit the water.

Some brief comment should be made here regarding the material from which the ships were made, the preferences held by some shipwrights, how it was cut and formed, and it's bulk measurement and quality. To the extent possible natural bends in wood were used for "knees" and angle-like ship's timbers. The preference in English shipyards for oak and the preference for natural strength over that of "fasteded" timbers led to this usage. Oaks from the areas of Northern Europe were fine for the development of long straight planking, but the gnarled English "Hedgerow" Oak was the best for the natural curved timbers used to strengthen the ship internally. Trees were even deliberately bent in certain ways so as to " grow" a needed set of curved timbers. These curved timbers were known as "compass" timbers.

All the work of forming the timbers and planks was done by hand. Water powered sawmills being rare. The saw pit was in extensive use with planks and other timbers being cut over the pit with long two man saws. One man stood on the timber or above it, while another man was in the sawpit. The shaping of the timbers was accomplished mostly by the use of a variety of adzes, and broadaxes, each one especially designed for a specific purpose.

Still think you could do all this is if you were an unskilled farmer trying to build a boat for the first time?

A Very Big Boat

And yet Noah's Ark stayed afloat without modern bracing or modern pumps, through a storm that lasted 40 days, and then survived a year at sea, with only 8 people to tend it? Sorry boys, Simply. Not. Possible.

The basic problem:

And then somehow they walked all the way back there without leaving any breeding colonies on the way .....

More detailed objections:

Bringing all kinds of animals together in the vicinity of the ark presents significant problems.

Could animals have traveled from elsewhere? If the animals traveled from other parts of the world, many of them would have faced extreme difficulties.

Some, like sloths and penguins, can't travel overland very well at all.
Some, like koalas and many insects, require a special diet. How did they bring it along?
Some cave-dwelling arthropods can't survive in less than 100% relative humidity.
Some, like dodos, must have lived on islands. If they didn't, they would have been easy prey for other animals. When mainland species like rats or pigs are introduced to islands, they drive many indigenous species to extinction. Those species would not have been able to survive such competition if they lived where mainland species could get at them before the Flood.

Could all the animals have lived near Noah? Some creationists suggest that the animals need not have traveled far to reach the Ark; a moderate climate could have made it possible for all of them to live nearby all along. However, this proposal makes matters even worse. The last point above would have applied not only to island species, but to almost all species. Competition between species would have driven most of them to extinction.

There is a reason why Gila monsters, yaks, and quetzals don't all live together in a temperate climate. They can't survive there, at least not for long without special care. Organisms have preferred environments outside of which they are at a deadly disadvantage. Most extinctions are caused by destroying the organisms' preferred environments. The creationists who propose all the species living together in a uniform climate are effectively proposing the destruction of all environments but one. Not many species could have survived that.

How was the Ark loaded? Getting all the animals aboard the Ark presents logistical problems which, while not impossible, are highly impractical. Noah had only seven days to load the Ark ( Gen. 7:4-10). If only 15764 animals were aboard the Ark (see section 3), one animal must have been loaded every 38 seconds, without letup. Since there were likely more animals to load, the time pressures would have been even worse.

Inventing Stuff To Explain Away The Impossible

Why Did God Do It In The First Place?

You were right - this is much better than before

The story is rationalised on the basis that the world was full of sinners so it had to be 'cleansed'. But what was achieved? Everybody just went straight back to sinning again. And God, the all-knowing, must have known that would happen, so what was the point of it all?

Or is the whole thing just an old folk story taken over by early Christians? (Look up the pre-Christian story of Gilgamesh for example)

The Noah's Ark Story

3 major problems

Punishment?

Charming Story

What You Have To Believe

Apologist Invent Miracles

The Logistics

A Very Big Boat

Gopher Wood

The basic problem:

Inventing Stuff To Explain Away The Impossible

Why Did God Do It In The First Place?

Facebook For The LOLS

Really?

Biblical Literalists